I read Hall’s book on Christian Nationalism and it’s actually somewhat awful? Not awful in the “he says mean or evil things” kind of way, but awful in the “this is such bad argumentation.” He really goes out of his way to say Doug Wilson isn’t influential (the SoD is a member of his church!), and he weirdly recalls a time in US history where sectarian disagreements on school prayers and bibles led to pogroms in America and then somehow concludes (as you quoted here) that “nahhhh it would be alright!” if we brought back prayer in schools. Anyway, I have a full review posting in like 2-3 weeks or so.
OMG, I just checked into how many adherents the "Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches" has. I figured maybe 200k, 300k.... 18,000 members! ROFL... this is what is going to launch the MAGA 4th reich?? lol
But here's the thing: Doug Wilson isn't influential. No one knows who he is except you guys. This whole CN bogeyman thing is a laugh riot akin to the satanic panic of the early eighties.
Hegseth is a church member but nice try. Influence is measured by more than just church membership, but can be seen in other ways (especially in today's world where church attendance/membership is down, but identity not as much). What's more, when it comes to social media discourse where people congregate in the same bubbles. So someone may not be a member of Wilson's church, but influenced by his beliefs due to his influence on social media and among conservatives.
It warrants mentioning that Gerald L.K. Smith resigned his pastorate in Louisiana before the DoC could move to revoke his ministerial license because of his vocal attachment to Huey Long. His career as a Christian Nationalist propagandist came after his time in the pulpit.
Look at the books Mark David Hall has written. He is a firm believer in the Christian founding of the United States. I worked with him 10 years ago and he was clueless about the impacts of misogyny and racism on his students and colleagues so this analysis does not surprise me.
Hall by the way is at Regent University, Pat Robertson,s school. Robertson wrote a foreword to a short biography, or should I say hagiography written by some of the Pentecostals who converted Montt. He was the first Pentecostal head of state anywhere I believe. Arguably the first modern Pentecostal Dominionist. The good old 1950’s when we could all glory in genocide.
It would be a problem for this Christian. And of course it would include racism and misogyny. They are looking for Gilead (as in The Handmaid's Tale book), where women are subservient and POC do not exist.
It is a big scary monster when people thinking that way, threaten a Christian Bishop's life, for preaching the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth, in her church. It should be looked at as a threat for all of us who do not wish to live in a Christian "Nationalist" theocracy, based on Dominionism.
Anyone wanting to "make nice" so they don't get things stirred up, probably think Peter's vision on the roof was about lunch, not to mention their optimism when it comes to face-eating leopards.
I had some brief and soft relationship with a couple aspects of this. It is scary, it is a monster, and its silly and nonsensical to suggest it will be without the sexism and racism since both of those are structural issues to the USA in general. These same people are now saying empathy is sin (Doug Wilson types) or an evil under belly problem of Western Civilization (Musk). They are simply minimizing it. And as someone who is highly critical of Christianity in general, I find it very scary given Christianity has a ruthless history of subjugating people with brutal violence all in the name of their God.
"If Congress declared America to be a Christian nation, favored his religion, and everybody had to pray to his god"...
This is where you lost me. This has never been the case. This is the biggest strawman; no American Christians ever wanted to force Christian worship on anyone. There's no evidence.
Lots of current Christian Nationalists call themselves Dominionists. Simply ask yourself what dominion means and whether or not you would be happy to be dominated. Excluding occasional sexual adventures, few people like domination. These guys couldn’t have their heads deeper in the sand.
Related to this: Hall is so bad in the book he wrote on Christian Nationalism that he basically says “nahhhhh they don’t mean it that way” to whitewash Dominionists. Bizarre stuff.
Obviously the authors are not gay, witches or atheists. I’d like to imagine that evangelicals cared about the civil rights of such people but I can’t live in a fantasy world. Look back at Rios Montt in Guatemala inthe mid 1980’s. He was effectively a Christian nationalist supported by US evangelicals and ask yourself whether the victims of his genocide consider such Christian nationalism innocuous.
To the Christian nationalist, the parable of the Good Samaritan and Jesus’ teaching at the sermon on the mount, specifically the beatitudes, are “too liberal”. They act as the Pharisees who uphold law above even Jesus himself.
1 Corinthians 5:11-13
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of BROTHER (fellow believer) if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders (non-believers)? Is it not those INSIDE THE CHURCH whom you are to judge? GOD JUDGES THOS OUTSIDE. “Purge the evil person from AMONG YOU.””
I read Hall’s book on Christian Nationalism and it’s actually somewhat awful? Not awful in the “he says mean or evil things” kind of way, but awful in the “this is such bad argumentation.” He really goes out of his way to say Doug Wilson isn’t influential (the SoD is a member of his church!), and he weirdly recalls a time in US history where sectarian disagreements on school prayers and bibles led to pogroms in America and then somehow concludes (as you quoted here) that “nahhhh it would be alright!” if we brought back prayer in schools. Anyway, I have a full review posting in like 2-3 weeks or so.
Those Bible riots in Philly led to some deaths as I recall. Similar riots happened in New York and Cincinnati. I wrote about the Cincinnati riots and court case https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/04/the-cincinnati-bible-wars-when-the-bible-was-removed-from-schools. Not good. Let me know when you post your review.
I have it scheduled for March 21st! It’ll be in the Christian Nationalism tag for sure.
Here it is! https://open.substack.com/pub/joerjames3/p/the-worst-book-ive-read-on-christian?r=110d4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
OMG, I just checked into how many adherents the "Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches" has. I figured maybe 200k, 300k.... 18,000 members! ROFL... this is what is going to launch the MAGA 4th reich?? lol
But here's the thing: Doug Wilson isn't influential. No one knows who he is except you guys. This whole CN bogeyman thing is a laugh riot akin to the satanic panic of the early eighties.
Hegseth is a church member but nice try. Influence is measured by more than just church membership, but can be seen in other ways (especially in today's world where church attendance/membership is down, but identity not as much). What's more, when it comes to social media discourse where people congregate in the same bubbles. So someone may not be a member of Wilson's church, but influenced by his beliefs due to his influence on social media and among conservatives.
Not to mention Wilson’s network of Christian schools. https://classicalchristian.org/our-history/
It warrants mentioning that Gerald L.K. Smith resigned his pastorate in Louisiana before the DoC could move to revoke his ministerial license because of his vocal attachment to Huey Long. His career as a Christian Nationalist propagandist came after his time in the pulpit.
Look at the books Mark David Hall has written. He is a firm believer in the Christian founding of the United States. I worked with him 10 years ago and he was clueless about the impacts of misogyny and racism on his students and colleagues so this analysis does not surprise me.
Hall by the way is at Regent University, Pat Robertson,s school. Robertson wrote a foreword to a short biography, or should I say hagiography written by some of the Pentecostals who converted Montt. He was the first Pentecostal head of state anywhere I believe. Arguably the first modern Pentecostal Dominionist. The good old 1950’s when we could all glory in genocide.
It would be a problem for this Christian. And of course it would include racism and misogyny. They are looking for Gilead (as in The Handmaid's Tale book), where women are subservient and POC do not exist.
It is a big scary monster when people thinking that way, threaten a Christian Bishop's life, for preaching the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth, in her church. It should be looked at as a threat for all of us who do not wish to live in a Christian "Nationalist" theocracy, based on Dominionism.
Anyone wanting to "make nice" so they don't get things stirred up, probably think Peter's vision on the roof was about lunch, not to mention their optimism when it comes to face-eating leopards.
I had some brief and soft relationship with a couple aspects of this. It is scary, it is a monster, and its silly and nonsensical to suggest it will be without the sexism and racism since both of those are structural issues to the USA in general. These same people are now saying empathy is sin (Doug Wilson types) or an evil under belly problem of Western Civilization (Musk). They are simply minimizing it. And as someone who is highly critical of Christianity in general, I find it very scary given Christianity has a ruthless history of subjugating people with brutal violence all in the name of their God.
"If Congress declared America to be a Christian nation, favored his religion, and everybody had to pray to his god"...
This is where you lost me. This has never been the case. This is the biggest strawman; no American Christians ever wanted to force Christian worship on anyone. There's no evidence.
You've perhaps never heard of U.S. Grant's peace policy toward Native Americans.
Catholics and protestants fought literal battles in the 1840s over which Bible would be forced on each others' children.
"Literal battles..." Sounds like Ireland bro
Lots of current Christian Nationalists call themselves Dominionists. Simply ask yourself what dominion means and whether or not you would be happy to be dominated. Excluding occasional sexual adventures, few people like domination. These guys couldn’t have their heads deeper in the sand.
Related to this: Hall is so bad in the book he wrote on Christian Nationalism that he basically says “nahhhhh they don’t mean it that way” to whitewash Dominionists. Bizarre stuff.
Obviously the authors are not gay, witches or atheists. I’d like to imagine that evangelicals cared about the civil rights of such people but I can’t live in a fantasy world. Look back at Rios Montt in Guatemala inthe mid 1980’s. He was effectively a Christian nationalist supported by US evangelicals and ask yourself whether the victims of his genocide consider such Christian nationalism innocuous.
Long time ago it was called revolution. Then politics got in the way as the shift from G-d bless to America bless
To the Christian nationalist, the parable of the Good Samaritan and Jesus’ teaching at the sermon on the mount, specifically the beatitudes, are “too liberal”. They act as the Pharisees who uphold law above even Jesus himself.
1 Corinthians 5:11-13
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of BROTHER (fellow believer) if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders (non-believers)? Is it not those INSIDE THE CHURCH whom you are to judge? GOD JUDGES THOS OUTSIDE. “Purge the evil person from AMONG YOU.””